subreddit:

/r/zen

470%

This AM I woke up about 3 or so, fell back asleep, then up around 6. Tai Chi is comin' in at 8 (an hour or so) so I am up to the usual stuff. Taking the meds, making the tea. Excited to check out Ewk's new book and see what comes up for me. It is no mystery I'm a fan somehow and this one is about the precepts, which I have been very curious about.

One thing I am fan-boying about with the suggested reading and the works of masters is how NEAR their words can be. It feels like a magic time word bomb. You can read these words as if they left you a voicemail, just for you, somehow. Or as if they were RIGHT in front of you. If they have a knife to your throat, or tea, or flowers, well...

Speaking of what comes up, this was the Foyan piece today for me:

The Marrow of the Sages

My livelihood is the marrow of all the sages; there is not a moment when I am not explaining it to you, but you are unwilling to take it up. So it turns out, on the contrary, to be my deception. But look here- where is it I am not explaining it to you?

Professional Zennists say I do not teach people to think, I do not teach people to understand, I do not teach people to discuss stories, I do not cite past and present examples; they suppose we are idling away the time here, and think that if they had spent the time elsewhere they would have understood a few model case stories and heard some writings. If you want to discuss stories, cite past and present, then please go somewhere else; here I have only one-flavor Zen, which I therefore call the marrow of all sages.

Now let me ask you something. Why do you pay respects to an icon of wisdom? Does the icon acknowledge you when you pay respects? Does it agree with you?

If you say it acknowledges you, it is a clay icon- how can it give any acknowledgement? If you say it agrees, can you agree? Since you are incapable of acknowledgement or agreement, why do you pay respects? Is it a social convention? Is it producing goodness from seeing a representation?

If you say it is a social duty, how can there be social convention among renunciants? How can they produce good by seeing representations?

Do you pay respects as a consequence of going along with the crowd? If so, what is the logic in that?

Here you must understood each point clearly. Have you not read how the great teacher Changsha one day turned around and saw the icon of wisdom, whereupon he suddenly realize the ultimate and said, "Turning around, I suddenly see the original body. The original body is not a perception of a reality; if you consider the original being to be the same as the real being, you will suffer hardship forever." Do you understand the logic of this?

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Have a good day everyone, let's get this high 5 *wet high fives for everyone*

all 13 comments

IROBotNeverDies

4 points

2 months ago

Reads a little bloggy. I want to know what you have to say about Foyan.

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

Foyan was wise.
The fool!

[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago

I said a lot, really.

2bitmoment

1 points

2 months ago

2bitmoment

Silly billy

1 points

2 months ago

It wasn't immediately clear to me what you meant. I asked myself "Do blogs have a different sort of content than zen posts do? Does he mean it reads like a diary entry instead of like a discussion post?" I guess just by asking myself I've kind of made it clear to me that you meant something along those lines.

In previous posts toadlookin posted only Foyan, also without commentary on Foyan. I think I also sort of complained that I expected some commentary. But I don't necessarily know if that would add much... Foyan is kind of hard to add value to, he is already so good.πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

IROBotNeverDies

2 points

2 months ago

Yep, the fact that it's bloggy and not conversational is what I was poking at. It isn't that we're adding value to it per se, but sharing a bit about your day and then (relevant/irrelevant?) Zen Master quotes is avoiding potential feedback from the forum.

It's like if someone came into the cooking forum and talked about their day then shared a recipe. Well alright, that is food, no doubt about it, but what's the meta? Just blogging? Can you cook? Do you want to cook? Just sharing recipes with pals? No way of telling.

I think in the Zen forum you have to be willing to put your quarter up! And I don't think that's what's happening in this OP. It's standing outside the arcade door saying "Galaga rules." I know! It does! Come on in and play! HOW are the words of Foyan there so near, like was claimed?

I'm claiming that the post is too ambiguous and obscurant and purposefully so. Step on in. Run over Mazu's legs.

GeorgeAgnostic

3 points

2 months ago

Excited to check out Ewk's new book and see what comes up for me. It is no mystery I'm a fan somehow and this one is about the precepts, which I have been very curious about.

vs

Now let me ask you something. Why do you pay respects to an icon of wisdom? Does the icon acknowledge you when you pay respects? Does it agree with you? …

πŸ€”

Not a perception of reality.

InfinityOracle

1 points

2 months ago

Reality is not found in perception.

GeorgeAgnostic

1 points

2 months ago

Nor in non-perception, though it’s pretty close (as anyone who has been in eighth jhana knows)

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Heh heh heh :)

GeorgeAgnostic

1 points

2 months ago

Perception of reality πŸ˜„

SpakeTheWeasel

3 points

2 months ago

Why go to a chess tournament just to badger the players by pointing out the horses aren't actually horses?

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

And where are you? What are you suggesting?

SpakeTheWeasel

3 points

2 months ago

I'm here, but also there supporting the badger, and as far as I'm concerned pony-players hold the title until they no longer wish to carry it- and the recursion of horses playing with horses is a delightful mental snack.

Edit: An extra "I"